Theories of artistic merit.

[fancycwabs]

I've put this forth before elsewhere, but I wanted to put it down here for posterity, seeing as Iron Man also fits within the set of data points.

I generally developed this idea since watching various Marvel franchises become films, develop, prosper, and ultimately flounder and fail over the past ten years or so. Not being the type (anymore) to pile through my DVD collection with a stopwatch, I'm operating based largely on memory here, but I think it largely holds up to strict scientific scrutiny, and I'm sure I'll eventually be able to use it as the basis of my doctoral thesis in film studies. In any case, here, on May 4, 2008, I present to the Internet at large:

Fancycwab's Law of Stan Lee Cameos:

The quality of a given Marvel franchise film is inversely proportional to the length or importance of Stan Lee's cameo in the film.

Supporting data:

Movie	Stan Lee Cameo	Length	Quality
Spider-Man	Guy at Macy Gray Fest	1 second	Good!
Spider-Man 2	Man dodging debris	Don't blink	Great!
Spider-Man 3	Guy who lectures Peter Parker	10 seconds	Um, better than Hulk? Please?
X-Men	Hot Dog Vendor	1 second	Pretty good
X2	Doesn't appear	n/a	Awesome!
X3	Waterhose man	Too long, clearly	Why, God, Why?
Daredevil	Old Man at Crossing	I've blocked the memory, but it must have been long, because	Made me wish for blindness akin to Matt Murdock's
Hulk	Security Guard	30 seconds	Nearly killed the franchise before it started
Fantastic Four	Willy Lumpkin	Named Character	Didn't see it, but I've heard stories
Fantastic Four 2	Rejected Wedding Guest	I'm sure it was lengthy	Do directors never learn?
Iron Man	Party guest mistaken for Hugh Hefner	1 second	Rock!
Iron Man 2	Mistaken for Larry King	< 1 second	Damn fine cinema
The Incredible Hulk	Man drinking Slurm	8 seconds	Quite good, but not great
Thor	"Did it work?"	2 seconds	A fine evening at the movies.
Captain America	"I thought he'd be taller"	2 seconds	Excellent!
The Avengers	"Superheroes in New York?"	< 2 seconds, on a television	The superhero movie you'll tell your grand kids about
The Amazing Spider-Man	His own Buster-Keaton-esque slapstick mini-film	5 seconds	A lot of people think this is a really good movie. Those people are idiots.

There you have it. Irrefutable evidence. Do I blame Stan Lee for this? Of course not. But the director who resorts to lengthy Stan Lee cameos as shameless fanboy pandering? Yep. Clearly this is what happens when you don't have much of a script, talent, or characterization to work with.

Edited to add The Incredible Hulk data. June 30, 2008.
Edited to add Iron Man 2 and Thor May 8, 2011.
Edited to add The Avengers May 6, 2012.
Edited to add Captain America and The Amazing Spider-Man July 5, 2012

Comments

[redtheblue.livejournal.com]

Fanboy pandering? I had no idea that's what they were doing. I've never picked up a comic thinking, "Oh boy, I hope a famous creator appears in one or more panels!" Stan is a neat guy but he's no rock star.

[redtheblue.livejournal.com]

...And it would seem that Mallrats proves your theory, come to think of it.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

I thought of including Mallrats, but it's not technically a Marvel franchise, even if it does fit the pattern.

What would you call a Stan Lee cameo, if not fanboy pandering? After all, there are websites and articles devoted to the art of the Stan Lee cameo, even if they don't subscribe to my theory.

[hatgrlstargazer.livejournal.com]

Is it pandering to fanboys, or is it pandering to Stan Lee's ego? That's an honest question, I don't know.

...as much as is wrong with the F4 movies, I still found them fun. I quite liked the rejected wedding guest cameo, it's cannon.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

Well, the man did co-create some of the most iconic comic book characters in history--it's amazing he doesn't have an ego the size of Harlan Ellison's.

Besides, no other comic creator has ever boasted such a magnificent pornstache (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Stan_Lee_1973.jpg).

[hatgrlstargazer.livejournal.com]

Oh certainly, he's earned his ego fair and square. I'm always kind of amused at how much he seems to be enjoying his living legend status. (Also amazed at how hard he still seems to be working, seems like I'm always hearing about new things Stan Lee is doing today.)

thank you

[(Anonymous)]

thanks much, man

[bkdelong.livejournal.com]

HA. Very nice. In regards to recent references. Stan Lee has way more years contributing to Geek Culture than our young, cute and promising Felicia Day.

Re:

[sergeiaa05.livejournal.com]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMzgVshG6CI