[Tiny Filter] Update on the bad situation:

[fancycwabs]

I was off sick for part of the day yesterday, and while I was at home I installed some spyware removal software on our son's (our son comes to visit on the weekends) computer. While doing so, I checked his surfing history, and discovered (amongst the porn--he is a fifteen-year-old) that someone had hit the burning man site and checked ticket prices on the Jan 16. Today I asked her if she'd bought tickets, and she said she had. I am assuming she's bought tickets for herself and her girlfriend (who has gone before), whom I also assume has taken my place in her heart, and possibly between her legs.

I cannot think of a single reason (save my marriage vow, which I take seriously) not to file for divorce. Amy has shown no indication that she's interested in reconciliation, but instead that she just wants to stay at the house so our daughter can remain in her school. As soon as that happens, I'm afraid she's going to leave me, saddled with a ton of debt that she's currently charging up.

Any of you lawyerly types of folks who've gone through this before have any advice on protecting myself?

UPDATE: We've talked a little. She has an explanation for the ticket, at least, and still claims that she's not cheating on me.

Comments

[cheezdanish.livejournal.com]

I'm not a lawyerly type, but I have gone through this.

All I can say is get a lawyer now. The debt she's racking up will be on you, too, no matter what you do.

I'm so sorry. SO sorry.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

A coworker's wife is a lawyer who does divorce work, and I've asked him to have her give me a call. Mrs. Cwabs isn't answering her phone at the moment. Because of her irresponsibility with credit in the past, most of our major debt is in my name, including both of our cars, the house, etc. I'm thinking I need to set up a separate checking account, cancel credit cards, protect things ASAP. Does that sound reasonable?

[cheezdanish.livejournal.com]

Yeah, set up a separate account in your name, at the very least. Although if you're in a joint property state, you'll still have to give her access while you're still married. Canceling cards is a good way to go as well, or at the very least temporarily closing them.

But, again, I'm not a lawyer, and if this does go down, and you're "hiding assets" you could get in a buttload of trouble. So tread cautiously.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

At the moment there are no assets to hide. Our bank account is practically empty, our credit cards are largely in dangerous territory, I've got some money in an old 401K, as does she (I think the balances on those are about even), we have equity in the house and the contents thereof, and a car each, although both are in my name. I'd like to make repairs on the house (once I can afford them given our significant debt), sell it, split the proceeds, and move on. She makes a little bit more than I do--although I don't know what difference that makes in re: alimony etc.

[cheezdanish.livejournal.com]

That sort of thing won't matter if she gets herself an attack lawyer. Guys usually end up with the short end of the stick in this sort of situation. All it'll take will be you siphoning off some funds for your own use while you're still married, and that could get you in legal hot water.

Not that I'm trying to scare you, sorry. If it's all in your name (I had a similar thing when my divorce went down), then you should be able to salvage the house and cars, at least.

I'm also seconding what Owlet suggested. Take a few days away from this, at the very least. With somebody you trust.

*hugs*

[snowy-owlet.livejournal.com]

The danish speaketh aright. You need to speak to a lawyer. In my situation, they essentially took a snapshot of finances on the separation date, and that was the last day we were both responsible for.

(Funny story about that: he took out half the bank account and gave it to me. "Here's your share," he said. "I hope it lasts you until you get paid [in two weeks]." That chunk of cash lasted me two full months.)

You should get a card/bank account in YOUR name only.

If you really want to push the issue, and if the cards are in both your names, call and freeze the accounts. Be sure to have a flak jacket on when she finds out, though.

GRUH. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Do you have a friend you can go stay with? I say leave and let her deal with her own kid.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

Frankly, I'd rather she and the kid moved out--that's what she keeps threatening to do, anytime we have any sort of discussion. How much she hates the house, her life, how she wants to leave and move to midtown (where her girlfriend is). I trust myself more not to burn the place and everything in it to the ground in order to be rid of it, and I think we can get some money out of it when we sell it, which I can do as a financial rather than an emotional decision.

The credit card is in my name: She has a separate card on the account, but it's mine. The bank account is in both our names, but she's basically emptied it.

[snowy-owlet.livejournal.com]

I say cancel the card, and you need your own bank account. You may end up having to give some of the $ out of it to her, but if you can't trust her to, say, leave in enough money for the mortgage, you need to protect yourself.

I'm not talking about permanent moving out: I'm talking about right now. Do you have a safe place to go? It's hard to think clearly in the middle of a toxic situation, and what I know that I needed most in this situation was a place where I could be safe, get some sleep, and have a nutritious meal so that I had some brain power. You never make good decisions when you're scared, sleep-deprived, or hungry.

Leaving doesn't cede the house to her, especially if it's in your name.

Edit: I'm wondering whether I'm completely wrong about the bank account thing, given the above comments. So please disregard.

[phonemonkey.livejournal.com]

Leaving doesn't cede the house to her, especially if it's in your name.

Legally speaking, you're correct, but the problem is that it can be really difficult to regain access to a house if the occupant changes the locks and bars entry. Possession is nine-tenths of the law and all that. It can go to court, it's a real sod. Even if Amy says she doesn't want to do that, people can do weird and/or vindictive things in the midst of breakup.

You never make good decisions when you're scared, sleep-deprived, or hungry.

Agree 100%. I wish I could remember who it was that came up with HALT (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired) as a quick way to check if you're in a situation where you can be rational, but it's a good one.

[snowy-owlet.livejournal.com]

That's an excellent point. My reaction to this kind of situation is pretty knee-jerk, so take it with a pillar of salt.

(Except for the taking care of yourself bit: that's IMPORTANT.)

[loree-borealis.livejournal.com]

I've never heard HALT before. That is good to remember.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

I should note that while I'm not particularly tired, angry, or hungry, ive been lonely for a while now. But seeing all the comments from the wonderful ladies helps.

Did I not put any men on this filter at all?

[phonemonkey.livejournal.com]

I wish I had something useful to contribute. Is mybadhairlife on this filter? I know she's a Canadian divorce lawyer and not a US one, but she's still probably worth talking to.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

She's not at present, but she's about to be.

[crankyliberal.livejournal.com]

Jesus, what a mess.

Sadly, my lawyerly experience is useless in this situation. I just wish you good luck.

[loree-borealis.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry it's gotten to this point. She is behaving so selfishly. I don't know exactly what's going on; when I read your posts I want to say, "Talk to her! Ask her! Stop assuming!" But it sounds like she's cut herself off to the point you can't even talk to her anymore. :( I am a no-brain greenie to this marriage stuff, but if you need someone to talk to you know where to find me. *hugs*

[skatiemom.livejournal.com]

Hell. I wish I had words of wisdom, but those before me have given many of them.

I'll echo their advice to protect yourself financially if at all possible. One of my brothers-in-law found himself paying off his ex-wife's debts for years. She'd spent the last 6 months of their marriage building herself a doll collection to the tune of $25,000. However, she was the one who took care of all the financial stuff and it sounds like you keep an eye on those things.

Good luck, stay strong, and take care of yourself.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

Had I married my previous girlfriend instead of Mrs. Cwabs, I probably would have had a lovely collection of Barbies. I'm talking 40-Year-Old Virgin ability to sell it all for hundreds of thousands of dollars. But I would have married someone with several hundred Barbie Dolls (and growing!), and that really wasn't what I was looking for in a life mate.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

She makes more than I do, and I make pretty good money. It's well over twice (and almost three times) what she made when she was previously single with kids, and she survived (barely) then.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

Well, it will be bad for whoever carries the house note for a while, assuming they also carry the credit card debt, and since all those things are in my name, I'm assuming that's me.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

Neither of us would really want this house by ourselves--even though when we bought it it was her "dream home." My intention would be to repair it (kids and cats have done quite a bit of damage over nearly seven years) sell it, and split the proceeds down the middle. Still. Lawyer.

[phonemonkey.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I don't know how I missed all this, but what happened with you and Tom?

[fastlearner.livejournal.com]

Ack, I'm very sorry for you. Glad you're on good terms, though, and are working on sorting it all out.

[phonemonkey.livejournal.com]

This is what confused me - I'd seen references to him being in your house. Either way, it sounds like a very civil and sensible breakup.

[aliiyf.livejournal.com]

I wish I had something useful to say. My thoughts really just echo everyone else's -- she seems to be completely irrational and unreachable, but it's probably a good idea to get some quiet time away and speak to a lawyer before you do anything that can't be undone.

Good luck.

[garoux.livejournal.com]

Just letting you know that I did read this. I just really can't think of anything to say, and I don't want to give you advice that may not be correct. All I ask is that you take care of yourself, man.

[fancycwabs.livejournal.com]

I appreciate the moral support.

This katamari is mostly married folk, with a few singles thrown in for balance. Everyone speaks from a different background, some have seen some nasty divorces and breakups, others know nothing of the sort. But you're all here because I value your opinions, and want enough perspective for folks to tell me I'm overreacting, which isn't out of the question.

[fastlearner.livejournal.com]

So sorry to hear it, man. Not sure where you're at now, with the update, but I am sending you lots of good vibes and prayers and such. It's a hell of a thing.

[mybadhairlife.livejournal.com]

Holy cow, Cwabs - so sorry you're going through this. Hope you are okay. I saw your other post and I'm sending you all of the *mojo* I've got.

I am a lawyer, but in a completely different jurisdiction, which means that I can't tell you anything about how property division works in yours.

However, a lot of what has been said already is right in the general scheme of things. To summarize:

1. Get your own bank account at a completely different bank and start putting your pay cheques in there. You need a completely different bank because if you use the same bank, they always have these little caveats on your account that lets them go in there and take money out to cover your wife's debts and your joint overdraft without talking to you first.

2. Put in the funds to cover mortgage and other joint bills into the joint account only when the bills are due. If you can, make sure that the money goes directly to the bill (or the overdraft, if that's where you are.)

3. Shut down all of your joint credit cards, lines of credit etc. Make it clear to the bank that your finances are now separate and she is not allowed to incur debt in your name any more.

4. TELL HER THAT YOU INTEND TO SEPARATE YOUR FINANCES NOW. Find a place where the two of you can talk away from your children. Take a very business-like approach. If it starts to get too heated, walk away. Ideally, in a perfect world, she will co-operate with you in shutting down the credit cards, etc. and separating out your responsibilities.

5. Do not allow yourself to get drawn into anything too confrontational for two reasons (a) you may find the police showing up and claiming that you've been abusive or court documents claiming that you are intimidating/abusing and (b) if you want to retain the house, you want to stay there until a decision is made - getting charged or otherwise removed by court order will not help you.

6. Unless it's unbearable, do not leave the house if that's where you want to stay. Your joint ownership will not be lost if you leave, but various other rights might be.

7. TALK TO A LAWYER IN YOUR JURISDICTION. MAKE A PLAN WITH THE LAWYER. LISTEN TO THE LAWYER WHERE HER OR HIS ADVICE DISAGREES WITH THE ABOVE.

Hope everyone is okay.